The Family Outpost, Episode 5 | Pillar 3: Culture (feat. Kevin & Kelly Morrison)

Your family has a culture. You did not choose whether to have one. You only chose whether to build it or inherit it. In Episode 5, Rance sits down with co-host Kevin Morrison and his wife, Kelly, to pull back the curtain on what intentional family culture looks like inside a real home: five kids, two businesses, and one mission.

Kelly Morrison is a homeschooling mother of five, ages 10, 7, 5, 2, and three months, who brings honest self-awareness and hard-won wisdom to this conversation. She and Kevin have spent years building rhythms that reflect what they actually believe, from a weekly Shabbat meal to an identity-based way to deal with name-calling to family meetings built around ice cream. Nothing in the Morrison home is an accident.

Rance also steps into a conversation about why culture is a dad's job too, and what it costs a man when he treats his home as someone else's domain. The episode closes with an Outpost Challenge that is simple but powerful if you put it into action.

Episode Chapters

00:00 Intro and Theme Music

00:37 Pillar 3: Culture

01:06 Outpost Challenge Field Report

07:39 Meet Kevin and Kelly Morrison

09:02 A Week in the Morrison Home

12:16 What Is Family Culture?

18:35 Identity and Formation

23:51 Culture Is a Dad's Job

27:22 Weekly Shabbat Meal

34:37 Culture and Education

38:31 Serving as a Family

43:58 Family Meetings and Direction

50:34 Outpost Challenge

52:38 Family Mission Statement Resource

53:27 Closing and Next Episode Preview

Outpost Challenge

Think of a rhythm in your family that has either slipped, something you started but has fallen through the cracks, or something you have not tried yet but have been meaning to try. This week, try it once. Just once. See how it goes.

It does not have to be perfect. It does not have to be Instagram-worthy. Start. Hold it loosely. Build the muscle before you expect the result.

Email us at familyoutpost@all4one.org to share what rhythm you restarted or what one step you took this week. We read every response.

Downloadable Resource

How to Develop Your Family Mission Statement and Values: https://irp.cdn-website.com/3068abde/files/uploaded/How+to+Develop+Your+Family+Mission+Statement.pdf

Links

The Family Outpost Podcast: https://www.all4one.org/the-family-outpost-podcast

All4One: https://www.all4one.org/

4MUS: https://www.4mus.org/

SportQuest: https://www.sportquest.org/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheFamilyOutpost

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/all4one_ministries/

Episode Transcript

Transcript lightly edited for clarity.

Rance: Your family has a culture. You didn't choose whether to have one. You only chose whether to build it or inherit it.

Kevin: This culture starts with us. The priority is our relationship because the best thing you can give your kids is a strong foundation and a safe place to be.

Rance: Values, we all know, are caught more than taught. Kids aren't just becoming who we tell them to be. They're also heavily influenced by what they actually see us do.

Kevin: The road map's in the word. So if you want to dive in, you want to get the answers, they're there.

Rance: Welcome back to The Family Outpost, the podcast for families who are opting out of the default American family model and reclaiming God's good design for the family. I'm Rance Bland, and every episode, we sit down with real families to talk about what it means to live with purpose. And we leave you with one Outpost challenge you can take home this week. Today, we're on pillar three of the Kingdom Outpost framework culture. And Kevin's not just cohosting today. He and his wife, Kelly, are our guests, and we'll get to that in just a minute. But first, we need to report back from the last episode. Alright. So last episode, Yuri gave us the challenge as we were talking about priesthood of the family to take a Bible verse and just make it visible to our family, stick it on the fridge, write it on a whiteboard, wherever. And and then there was a second part. Level two was find some time during the day to just talk about it, discuss it a little bit. So did you do this, both parts or one part, or how did this go for you?

Kevin: Yeah. So this was a great reminder for me that, success is not the outcome. It's the obedience. And so the beautiful thing about these these outpost challenges, it's just a step to take without any defined outcome or anything like that. And so if somebody was to be grading, I would probably get a poor grade in terms of the outcome. And so it was just simple obedience. And so we had been reading through 1 John one through three. So I took different verses through 1 John and put them different places. And I was trying to be intentional about not saying anything because I think Yuri said, like, don't be the one that drives it. Just see where the conversation goes. Or maybe

Rance: Mm-hmm.

Kevin: I had that idea in my own head. I don't know. And so I did it. But so far, the only response that I have gotten in terms of them is hearing my son gazing in the other room when I put the one on the... I had put one on the fridge, I put one on the door. And then after the one went up on the door, I just hear from, who is putting these verses all over the house? So, so far, that's the only response I've gotten. Fair. Alright.

Rance: Well Yeah. You know, exactly. Obedience, check. Desired outcome, maybe not so much, but that's okay. That's that's part of it.

Kevin: Right? Seeds are still planted. They're still going to sit there. And so

Rance: That's right.

Kevin: You know, we don't... You know, part of this is we get not a lot of time to get through some of these outpost challenges, which is good because it pushes me forward to do something. And, you know, some people can say, and I've had thoughts about, is it good to just do something even when you're you're not, you know, all in or can't give everything you have into it and make it this grandiose thing. And sometimes just... It's just about showing up. It's just about continuing to take steps forward. And so for me, this was a good reminder. Just take... Keep taking a step forward.

Rance: I've had so many moments like that trying to lead my family spiritually where just doesn't have quite the desired effect, but you just keep showing up. So I put the verse Matthew 9:37-38 up. I actually found a... I actually searched, you know, Google search. It had, like, a little picture behind it. I hit print, and I stuck that thing in our kitchen. And, I did it before anybody woke up. So then I was in my office and my, by the way, the verse, just because probably not everyone has that memorized, is, ask the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest field. And so just a great, you know, praying for more workers in in the harvest field. So my daughter comes in, and she goes, daddy, what was... Why'd you put that, you know, thing up in in the kitchen? I said, well, I just thought it'd be good to put some scripture up. And, and she goes, why does God want to send out Labradors? I was like, what? Oh, labor. Laborers. Okay. So we had a great, conversation about what's the laborers, what's the harvest field. I'm sure God loves Labradors, but he was actually talking to people there.

Kevin: That's fantastic.

Rance: Yeah. It was fun.

Kevin: I love that.

Rance: Then my son came in. He asked me about it. So... Yeah. I mean, it was an instant kind of conversation starter. So loved it.

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. So we just know that the Bland family is just more spiritual than us. That's just what we've been able to take from this. Thanks, Jerry. That was good.

Rance: It's a

Kevin: good gut check there. So that's beautiful. I mean,

Rance: we're not keeping score or anything, but, you know.

Kevin: But we are. Got it. Now that was clear. Alright. So if you had a Labrador moment, a very real Morrison family, what the heck's going on with all this writing everywhere? Whatever yours look like, share it. Challenge us. Challenge one another. Encourage all that. Put it in the show notes. That'd be great.

Rance: Now back to the episode. Your family has a culture. You didn't choose whether to have one. You only chose whether to build it or inherit it. So today, we're talking about how to build one on purpose and what it costs when you don't. I think the rhythm, if if I was being really honest, that we've struggled with the most in our home is the weekly meeting. Numerous times, Stacy and I have said, we need to set aside a specific day, time of the week. We've tried Sunday afternoons. We tried Monday at lunchtime. And the purpose is just for her and I to touch base on things like the schedule for the week, the meal plan. Is there anything going on with the kids that we should be more intentional about? It's always a a good time to plan a date night to pray together. And we'll do it for a week or two, and then something always comes up that gets us off track, and we have a hard time sustaining that. So the downside or or the cost of not doing this is that it hurts our communication. And without that meeting, we're kind of scrambling in real time on the day of, you know, trying to remember the things that we need to tell each other, and and it's just more difficult to get on the same page. What about you, Kevin? Is there a a rhythm in the Morrison home that has slipped from time to time?

Kevin: Actually, if there's a specific rhythm that gets out of whack with our... Within our home with five kids, it's it's Kelly and I's time together. And not just in a meeting because when we do have our coaches meeting, when we're doing that well, that's still within the house. But Kelly and I talk about this quite often, how important it is specifically for her to get out of the house. When we're going to do something intimate, romantic, connection based, it's out of our house. And so Yeah. We could talk without... About that for a while. But with five kids and not having, you know, grandparents to just drop them off on a regular rhythm, and this is something that's certainly my responsibility as the man. But that's the one rhythm out of whack that we keep coming back to.

Rance: Okay. Well, I just wanted people to know right off the bat, we don't have this all figured out. But before we go any further, want to talk about, this special episode that we have today. Kevin, obviously, you're my cohost, so, people have heard from you now for a few episodes. But we're changing it up today, because we've got your wife, Kelly, here. Kelly, you are mother of five. Believe the ages, if I have this right, are 10, seven, five, two, and an infant a few months old. Yes. And, of course, the coculture maker, with Kevin in the Morrison household. So welcome to The Outpost, Kelly.

Kelly: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Rance: How many months old is your infant?

Kelly: She is just over three months old.

Rance: And I'm sure our listeners are wondering how... Where are they now? How are you even actually able to both be on this podcast right now?

Kelly: We're hiding.

Kevin: Yeah. That's the trick. Like, just don't know. We're hiding. Just don't know, and it feels better.

Rance: Awesome. Awesome. Ignorance is bliss.

Kevin: Yeah. So Two of two

Kelly: of them are hopefully sleeping. The other three are the oldest three, and they are hopefully, you know, being civil Yeah. In the house. And, you know, we bribed one with an orange. Go take your orange. Go play with your kitchen.

Rance: Yeah. It's a nice thing about older siblings.

Kelly: Yes. That's right.

Rance: Well, Kelly, before we get into the substance of the episode today, just give us a picture of your home with all five kids. You guys homeschool. What does a normal week in the Morrison household look like?

Kelly: We aim for daily rhythms. And like most people, we're we're definitely imperfect in where all those rhythms land, but we're together a lot. So Monday through Friday is our... Basically, our focus on some lessons in the morning. Mondays and Fridays, we have more time with dad because he has more flexible time on those days. You know, he's in office Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, but Monday and Fridays are more allotted toward our family business, which we could dive into more a little bit later, Maine. But... Yeah. So his his hours are flexible those days. And then at home, it... You know, it's a bit of a juggling act with a toddler and an infant and just trying to set some steady rhythms of when people nap and when people eat. Those are actually, like, more important than they sound. Those little those little consistencies help with with the chaos of the day. They're like anchors. So everybody kind of trickles out sometime in the morning after 07:15. We've early risers. We've always had very early risers, but... So we've had to say, listen. You know, the sun has to kind of be up before you come out and make us start our day. So they come out around that time, and then we all do... They have to jump into some household help, chores, contributions. So they jump into that and then they they have breakfast together, clean up, have a little free time. And then on our typical, like, lesson day... Because I have the kids. I have all of the kids Monday, Wednesday, Friday, but two of my my two oldest have gone to like a a hybrid on Tuesday, Thursday. So those days look a little different. But on our days at home, yeah, we start around ten or so, and the big kids jump into the things that they can do a little bit more independently. And and that's sort of when I am able to pour more into my littlest three. So more time with infant, toddler, and and my budding kindergartner. Yeah. I mean, it kind of flows through that. They they do that, and then we go about sort of more normal things in the afternoon, maybe an outing in the afternoon. Yeah.

Rance: Okay. So there is a lot to manage. And, you know, this... The pillar of culture, a lot of this has to do with how do we transform a lot of the chaos in our home into order and peace. And so we're going to unpack how you guys are doing that with a family of five. And, you know, Kevin has multiple jobs, and there's a lot going on. First, I just want to... I want to remind our listeners of what we're talking about when we are talking about culture. One of our core convictions of the Kingdom Outpost framework is that every family already has a culture. The the question is whether or not it's the one you chose to have or if you just inherited it by default. So, culture is... We're really talking about the lived atmosphere of your home, the routines, the emotional climate, what you say yes and no to, what you model when you think maybe no one's watching. It's that that is culture. That's what's shaping our kids, whether we name it or not. And research backs this up in a way that, I think is certainly kind of sobering and and motivating at the same time, But values, we all know are caught more than taught. Now that doesn't mean we don't teach them. It's very important. But we also know that if we teach a bunch of things that we never do and put into practice, our teaching's not going to be very effective. So kids aren't just becoming who we tell them to be. They're also heavily influenced by what they actually see us do. So for example, in our family, one of our, core values is generosity. And we could talk about generosity all the time, and we can encourage our kids to be generous. But if they never see us actually be generous and give, it's not going to really be a value that gets passed on. It's not it's not actually going to be something that comes to fruition. And so it's so important to be aware of what it is that we're modeling. So the question is, not do I have a culture in my family. It is, is it the one that I want my kids to carry into their own homes, someday? Kelly, I'd love to hear a little bit of your background. As you grew up, were you part of an intentional family culture, or was that something you and Kevin have had to build from scratch?

Kelly: Yes. I think I I think what I said to Kevin was that I think any parent that is, like, trying to be a good parent is usually intentional, and and they would believe they're being intentional. So I I think my parents, they really valued setting an environment for my sister and I that was that was safe and where we would grow up without too many hardships, kind of a life that was of ease because they had different things that they grew up that were not that. And I think they set out to to steer away from those things that were hard for them for good or for bad. Those those things have kind of shaped how my parents raised us and the way that they were intentional. And then so to to the question, would just say that Kevin and I are are very intentional, probably in really different ways than my parents were. And Kevin mentioned too, of course, like, by God's grace, there there have been things that have come into the fibers of our parenting and our family that he has just been good to us to, like, bring them to our attention and make them important on our hearts so that it's becoming part of our culture.

Rance: Would you say then that there are certain things you grew up with that you would hold on to and keep and kind of make part of your culture, but then either other things that weren't there that you've sort of got to fill the gaps or maybe even things you would change, you know, and intentionally do in a different way.

Kelly: Yes. To all of that.

Kevin: Yeah. Celebrations.

Kelly: Yes. That was a... Yeah. So my my family, we loved traditions and celebrations. So we try to carry that on and, like, make birthdays fun and special, like like many people do. But do we just carry that on that they're... A day that is focused on that child and why they're special and that God brought them into our family and our team on purpose for a purpose and just the little things that you do. You know, they have a special seat at the end of the table with a balloon on it and different things that that just make their day special.

Rance: Kinda going back a little bit in your marriage and family development, when did you get really intentional about building family culture and realize this was there... Like, when was that awareness that you had to be intentional and not just kind of put things on autopilot?

Kevin: I don't know that there was one key moment that it happened. And if there was, it was probably out at Spring Hill. But early on, Kelly and I had a lot of intentional conversations Mm-hmm. About how we want to operate, how we wanted to porn to our kids, what we found were important, and it changed a lot. But the one thing that was consistent is we were intentional about it. Okay? We may have done things, and it may have been terrible, and we changed our mind. And with every single kid, we're like, no. We were definitely doing it wrong. Let's let's change it this time. It would kind of just slowly morph where when we were in Spring Hill with All4One and, you know, the priors came out and there was language to a lot of the things that we were doing already, we were able to look back and and recognize, you know what? We've actually done a lot well, and we've done a lot right in a... In time where we're like, are we doing anything right? We're to look back and say, gosh. By God's grace, he put a lot of these things in front of us, and it wasn't necessarily that there was this long list of all these rhythms that we put together that our kids would have said, well, this is what makes our family our family. It was more of our language. And so we're... You know, I'm big on communication. I have this conversation everywhere and anywhere that the words you use build everything. And so we've been very intentional about the words we use and what we speak into our kids and all that. And so those things were happening. But when we started having more framework was with you guys and putting it together in in other things that other people built because, you know, wisdom is taking what other people did well and trying to replicate it.

Rance: Okay. So I want to get more practical. I'd I'd like to just go inside the Morrison home, let people, actually picture, you know, what it looks like for a real family. Because sometimes we might hear at a general level, build a strong family culture, and it's like, yes. I want to do that, but how do I do it? You know, what does it look like on a Tuesday afternoon with five kids and when one of them is sick and you didn't sleep well? And take us inside. And is there one specific rhythm, that has helped to bring peace where there was chaos, something that's been really helpful for you guys?

Kelly: I just really love something that something that Kev implemented, I guess, years ago now, where... You know, a parenting moment where kids are calling each other names can kind of be an annoying moment. You're like, just don't... And he found a way to use that in such a... It's just... So he taught the kids to tell them their identity in those moments. So if somebody calls a name, we immediately prompt them and encourage them to tell them who they really are. So instead of a poo poo head, they are a son of the most high god, a vital member of the Morrison team, and a dangerous warrior for the king's army. So our kids know that forward and backward now because there's a lot of name calling in our house. And so they have lots of opportunities to practice that. But then what they're doing without even like knowing the weight of it, they're speaking their identity into each other every day, multiple times They're a getting to say it to each other, and they're getting to hear it from the people that are part of their team. And so I just... I love that. And those are... That's like a moment where it's a peacemaker because they they know that. They know that... They know it's coming probably when they when they call a name, and it kind of changes the whole atmosphere at the room.

Rance: Right. What a beautiful way to take something that would otherwise just kind of take everybody down and turn it into a positive moment. Kevin, what comes to my mind is that in a sense, rather than going, alright. How do we discipline these guys better after they call each other names and sort of find a better punishment that will make them not want to do that. You flip that and thought, okay. How can I train them to actually speak well of each other and understand the importance of their words? And I think about the verse Proverbs 22:6, train up a child in the way he should go, and when he's old, he won't depart it... Apart from it. It actually doesn't say discipline a child. It says train a child, which is a little bit more proactive, whereas discipline is usually reactive after they've done something wrong. I I love that example. Was that in your mind thinking, alright. This is an area causing chaos in our home. I need to step in here and actually show them what I want to see, and I'm envisioning them speaking well of each other.

Kevin: Well, first, you can't give me too much credit because anything that we have done well in our house has certainly not come from me. I can actually picture Kelly bringing us... Signing us up for a Paul Tripp kid, like, speaking event where he comes and he speaks and does all... And I remember thinking the whole time he's identifying a problem. He's identifying a problem. Like, give me the solution before I just leave. And I remember being frustrated, and the reality was the whole problem was we we raise our kids for behavior outcomes rather than train them up. And so it's this it's this shift of mindset into becoming a coach. He could have given answers because I'm sure he did a lot of these things well, but instead, he identified the problem. And without saying it, he said, go pray about it. Like, go figure it out. Go seek the Lord on it. And so the things that have come up like that have always come from the Lord because they've truly... Like, that in and of itself happened in, like, five seconds. It was happening in the middle of something, and I said, woah. Slow down here. And those specific words, though... That identity of who they actually are and how to handle the moment, like, that all just came at once. But a big part of that, like I said, is is that shift to where we are coaches on this team. And so the the verbiage, the whatever vocabulary of using team vocabulary is big. And when you train somebody up, you don't just fix them. Right? That's not their... That's not the point. You don't just fix them because you can't actually go out there and say... You grab their stick and say, this is how you shoot the puck. Alright? Because you can't be on the ice with them. Like Right. Let me walk you through this, and let me help you remember this. Because when you shoot the puck well, the team wins. And it's really important for you to shoot the puck well. And so that that mindset mindset shift to coach and the dependence on God for actually guiding things is a solid one two punch.

Rance: Let me build on that for a moment, Kevin. And then I do want to come back to another rhythm in your household. But you you were... We were talking about training, and you mentioned a couple of times, this coach kind of mindset. When it comes to the pillar of culture, I wonder if if men sometimes have a hard time engaging with this one because maybe the assumption is, you know, the the home is sort of my wife's domain, and she can, you know, take care of that and make choices there. And and... But I'm, you know, I'm the protector. I'm the provider. I'm doing these other things, maybe external from the home. How would you maybe challenge and encourage dads to engage? Like, why should they be partnering with their wife to build culture in the home?

Kevin: Is it too easy to say God said so? I mean, if you're a man that follows the Bible and wants to know what truth is, it doesn't take long to read exactly how a man is to operate, a father or husband supposed to operate in in their home, but actually most men probably don't know what that looks like if we're being honest. They haven't seen it done well. We don't talk about it enough, and the reason we make identity and purpose so important in our home is that most people and men included or maybe especially because there's a battle against this, don't know identity and purpose, and so if you don't know it, kind of like inheriting culture versus building culture, if you inherit what your identity and purpose is and you don't know it from the truth of the Bible, well then it's probably in work, so it's outside the home. It's probably maybe even in a sport you play earlier in life, so then it becomes about performance, and so it never becomes the home. They think, alright, the home is where my wife operates and that's her identity and her purpose, but, mine is built in how I provide or what I'm able to do and all that. And that's that's pride in the end, but, we see the negative impact on the family that that's led to. Why do so many men struggle once the kids move out of their house? Well, they've completed their job because they they've said, well, I've I've done what I've had to do. I provided. I got them to 18, and they're gone. A coach is never done with his team. He just has a different role and responsibility as his team gets older, and they're building their own team. And so

Rance: That's right.

Kevin: Sadly, most men haven't had that example for them, and I would say same for us. But the road map's in the word. And so if you if you want to dive in, you want to get the answers, they're there.

Rance: Yeah. I love that because once I got a vision for my family, this started to click for me, and I had now a reason to care. And I saw how important culture was. I could have told you all day long, you know, in the work environment how important culture was, and I cared about that. But, I didn't have a vision yet for why it mattered in the family. But what helped me was, understanding that role of a coach. And I have a sports background like you, and so that's a that's a language I can understand. And I think, unfortunately, many men actually see themselves maybe sometimes as babysitters of their own kids. It's like, I'm just trying to keep them safe and don't don't fight with each other, and here's your food. But there's there's so much more. And when you put on that coach hat and you think about how can I develop my players because we have a game to play? We have we have something important to do. It just begins to change how we look at that and change everything. So, just wanted to touch on that for a moment. Kelly, I want to go back to the the rhythms in your in your home. I want to ask you about your, weekly, Shabbat meal. I'm not sure if you guys use the word Shabbat, but sort of this special family meal that sort of anchors your family each week. That... That's something that we will probably do an episode about and do a deep dive into, but I'd love to just hear briefly, what does that look like for you guys, and how has that been a blessing to your family?

Kelly: Well, that's like a, that's definitely a newer rhythm as in the last couple years. Years? Yeah. So a couple years now, but just something that, again, we brought in after that, the Family Summit or the... So it's been a it's been a major blessing because it's fun. It's... And it it just speaks to... I think we just... We naturally... God built us to thrive with rhythms, like not monotony where it's the same thing every day all the time, but like these predictable, comfortable rhythms that become traditions. So something just really speaks to our hearts and our souls with traditions, and that is one that we've really enjoyed to build. It is by no means perfect or pretty. Actually, one of the traditions that has come out of that tradition is that we all yell, oh, what do we say? Shabbat Shalom when Callan inevitably spills her special drink. It happens every single time. So now we just like... We like, oh, hoopla. And everybody kind of makes... I don't know that she's a big fan of this. She's like, spill my drink again. But... Yeah. So we have, like, a a drink that the kids don't normally have. It's something sweet and bubbly, and we get out plates that we don't use any other day and glasses and things like that. So the table is set in a pretty way. It's not it's not difficult. It happens fast because we know what we're using. And so I just say that because I think when I hear things like that people do, sometimes I can be like, how do you have time for that? Or how do you how do you make that happen? That sounds like a lot. But if you just have, like, any old table cloth that you never use tossed on on the table, the kids aren't going to know the difference. It's just something different that isn't always there. And we use specific matchsticks to light a specific candle. And so all those things are just like, we know what goes out, but to them, it's like, oh, it's it's a special dinner tonight. It's our Shabbat night. And Yeah. And then, of course, there are there are other biblical rhythms within that that we've implemented, like praying over the kids. I will pray over our girls, a special blessing, and Kev will do the same for our boys. He prays over me, which has been really sweet and nice and honoring. So we kind of use that. We use the dinner as an opportunity too to like, for a lot of different things to show our children how to treat women. Like, the boys are shown what it looks like to be a gentleman. They actually stand and wait for me to come and sit down until I come to the table, And they're encouraged to treat their their sister like a lady in different ways and to serve her. Yeah. So it's just a really great night. We also use it as a... As an opportunity for hospitality. We invite a lot of different families into that meal. So that's fun, and we get to kind of explain what the whole... Why why it looks like it does, why the evening looks like it does, why we do what we do. We pray the... We say the body and the blood, like they less a cup and we lift it up and... You know? Yeah. You speak into that a little bit more maybe.

Kevin: Well, actually, I was going to shift it, not to go away from communion, but the... I was just thinking because I know we will probably hit on this more in another episode in terms of the Shabbat, but one of my favorite memories of Shabbat was actually when I was away serving somewhere with four ms and came off the mountain and getting messages in, and I get these number of videos from Shabbat with Kelly and the kids, and one, was, like, we got five kids, and the fact that Kelly pulled her all together and did Shabbat without me was awesome. I was proud of her. But then I have these videos of my kids doing all the blessings that they heard over and over and over again. Colton's just was really touching. Did he did he did it over?

Kelly: Well, he did the boys one, like, boys. He remembered the

Kevin: boys one.

Kelly: Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin: My number two, so our seven year old boy did the blessing over the boys. We had to yell at him later because he wasn't the oldest, and that's not how it's done, and we have to be perfect with it. And so we'd yell at him. But, no, it was beautiful that he had it in his heart, and that was awesome.

Kelly: We had... We probably had, like, cereal or eggs that night.

Kevin: Doesn't Yeah.

Rance: No. But I I love that. First of all, I love that... You know, thank you for being real about it. So we know it's not perfect. We know it's... You know, just take the pressure off of it. But what a powerful culture shaping, identity shaping, tool. I know there's more we could unpack there, but I also want to ask you about, homeschooling because that's a decision you guys have made. And it sounds to me like more than an educational decision. It's a it's a culture, decision. So, what have you seen that makes it possible? What has homeschooling made possible in your home and in your family that maybe wouldn't be possible otherwise?

Kelly: I think I think because of the sheer amount of time that we are able to have with our children because of the debt... Because of the dynamics of homeschooling, character building. So I know that like... You know? And that happens in every family, but the amount of opportunities we have... Are faced with each day because all of our children are together many days and for a lot of different activities throughout the week, they just have lots of opportunities to... For us to encourage them in their relationships together and kind of encourage and build them up toward who God called them to be. Like the... So who who he has for them to become. We try to speak that into them as much as possible in moments of correction or in moments where, you know, we're falling apart as a as a team. And and and my kids have actually it... It's been really beautiful to see them step into that as like my oldest has stopped me and said, mom, I think you think you should stop and pray. He was right. I should I should stop and pray. It was a moment where I needed to take a breath, and my example and what I was living out isn't what I would call them to. So it's so it's good. But... Yeah. So homeschooling has allowed us that time. And and again, just to paint a a picture because when I say that we're building character into our kids, they're in process like everybody else. So it's... You know, they're both a masterpiece and a work in progress at the same time, and it's definitely not perfect. And they fight. So they they love big, and they and they and they squabble big. But but, yeah, I think that's probably what that allows for us most is those opportunities and to take take advantage of those and to build their... To build the kind of the fibers of their relationships, make those strong. Yeah.

Rance: I love that.

Kevin: What Kelly said earlier, when we were actually talking about this is the fact... And just so you know, from a decision making of homeschooling, my answer was very clear when she brought this up, and that was just no. No. We're not doing that. And sometimes leadership looks like trusting your wife on things, and so through prayer and listening to her and her reasons why, it became a yes. But she said earlier that that we... We've kind of had this nobody will have a greater influence on our kids than us mentality. And if our kids are going to school every day, five days a week, you know, and sometimes that's not an option for people to do anything other than than public school, and they can still have the greatest influence even when they are going to school five days a week. But for us, we're like, hey, listen. This is a this is a blessing that God has allowed us to have you home with them, and with that, there can be a greater emphasis on the formation and all those things. And it ain't easy, but it's a year to year thing as well. And so a couple years ago, as we're getting to the end of the year, we weren't sure if our kids should go back. And so we went and we talked about it as a family, and we went into separate rooms, and we prayed over it, and then we came back together. And our boys really wanted to stay where they were, and our 10 year old, when we got back together, said, I think it would be right for us to no longer go to this school even though he really wanted to because I think it's the best thing for the team. Now he did go back, and we didn't agree with him. We actually felt like he needed to go another year, but he recognized in that moment that homeschool is a year to year decision. It is a blessing, and sometimes it's not the best thing for the team. And so that was really cool. And Kelly's done an amazing job of holding it together.

Rance: I want to draw that out a little bit because, you know, the point of this is not to be prescriptive and say everybody needs to do it this way or that way. And I know there's a lot of reasons to to do, you know, different... There's various, approaches you could take here. But what I would hope people can take away from this is that we have we have agency in our kids' education. It's... Like, there are options. Like, even you said, you know, do... We might homeschool one year. They might go to school another year. It doesn't even have to be one answer for, you know, their entire, school years. And so I think just to be able to to say, you know what? We care about every area of our family life, and so we're going to bring education into that. And in some seasons, it might look like partnering with a school. And in other seasons, it might look like us, you know, more intensively spending that time with our kids and handling the education. So, I I love that. I think for a Kingdom Outpost, that's important to to to to feel that sense of responsibility in every area, not just sort of outsource it and and not think about it anymore, but to really step in and and engage in it. And you can also do that, I mean, in the school. My kids are in public school right now. And, obviously, there's ways you can engage that and be intentional there as well. Just for the sake of time, I want to I want to keep moving because, we had a really special experience together, our family, your family, a few other families. Last summer in Guatemala. We did a SportQuest Vision Trip. SportQuest is the sport ministry arm of All4One. Kelly, I just... I'd love to hear your reflections on that trip from a culture standpoint. How did that trip what did it do for your your family's culture? Did it maybe just confirm something? Did it reveal something? What did it stir up for you?

Kelly: It confirmed that as a family, serving needs to take a a bigger priority. It's a fill up a bigger priority in our lives as a team. So that's been on our hearts since then and just in different ways. So we know that that's a calling that we're, like, seeking to fulfill in different ways. And then also, I think it just just going... Just truly physically going someplace so different really just opened up our our kids' world. And they're little, and they have been homeschooled. So as much as we go and do, you're still... There's still a level of more sheltered by by design. You know, we have it that way on purpose of them, but that really allowed them to, like, step into something really outside of their own their own culture, their own home, their own comfort zones, and experience and see how other people live in the world. And I think that... When Kevin and I were talking about this, he mentioned too that just... There are things that we trust with God that he did with that trip that we don't even know and that he did in their hearts. It was like, we experienced it one way, but they experienced it completely different as children. And so with... What... Whatever they took away from that, we just sort of trust that in his hands to... You know, maybe that maybe that springs forward something in them that they want to do missions more in their life later or whatever. We... We're not sure what that'll develop into.

Rance: But Seeds are being planted there. Trees you may never sit under, but there'll be there'll be fruit from that. Yeah. Kevin, anything you'd add there?

Kevin: I don't think so. I think it... It's just a matter of... You can do a mission trip where there's a a week long mission where the mission is clear. And then when it's a week long, there's a start and an end, and everybody's on board because there's a... It's a week. But then to have a missional mindset is very is very different.

Rance: And especially when your kids are... Your kids' ages, you know, it's sometimes hard to create that environment altogether as a team. So doing it with other families also sort of helps create that capacity and and ability to to step into that. Kevin and Kelly, what is a value that your family holds that the culture pushes back on? Like, could you just describe a little bit of where do you get the most resistance or friction sometimes with your family values?

Kelly: Worldly culture is sort of at, like, a breakneck pace, and my insides don't even... Don't don't... I just I just function at a slower pace, which is sometimes not ideal. But as far as our family culture, I think that, like, what I've brought with that has been just something that allows them to soak in and be present in things.

Rance: Mm-hmm.

Kelly: So, yeah, I think that that is that is probably something that I just naturally push against is the the speed of culture, like just how fast information is coming at us or how fast communication is sort of sometimes demanded. And I think my my feeling about that is this. It doesn't... It's not really how God designed us to communicate. We weren't we weren't really designed with the capacity to take on all the things that are going on around the world when even your own environment, your own home, there's so much happening. And so kind

Rance: of Yeah.

Kelly: As much as you don't want to be... Like, live under a rock, you also want to be aware that you're not prioritizing so much of outside culture at that pace that you're not able to be there and and be present for your family because sometimes that's like anxiety inducing and fear inducing or maybe it's just distracting and kind of numbing out to turn to those things. So I think those are probably values that we hold is like to move slower, but for a reason, not not to just be late to things, but but Which also happens. Live.

Rance: Yeah. Okay. Well, let... Let's start to land this plane here. And I I want to... I'm just thinking about families that are listening to this, and maybe they feel, like the culture of their home is just happening to them, which is place that we've all been where just that pace that you're talking about, screens, schedule, just the chaos is just... You're in that grind. What's one thing that you would encourage a family listening to do this week that would help them start taking back their their family culture?

Kevin: Certainly, like any business, if there's anything that can bring a business together and then get a culture right, it's it's communication. It's conversations, but that happens through very intentional meetings. And so depending on what age your kids are, for us, it's our coaches meeting. It's our time for Kelly and I to sit down and talk about, hey. What are our values? Not just our schedule, not the things that are happening, but, like, what is important to us, and then have time to be able to communicate it to them. And so when things are going well, we have a coaches meeting and a family meeting. We've got Sunday, Mondays, every Monday that we get together for family. But if you can get a rhythm of meeting regularly, you don't have to fix everything all at once because it's impossible, but you can do two things. You can, one, identify that you want to make a shift, begin having conversations with your family no matter what age you are that, hey, We want to make some changes. It may be repenting and maybe prayer together. It may look like a lot of different things, but then you can change things one thing at a time rather than having it all at once. As long as you've got that weekly meeting where you're identifying things and keep moving forward and stay intentional and recognize, you know what? We tried to be intentional in this direction and that didn't work. Well, you got next meeting to fix it and move in a different direction.

Rance: Okay. Well, this... So this is the exact thing that we struggle with to sustain in our homes.

Kevin: We're really just here to talk to you and Stacy, but, Thanks you know

Rance: for this free therapy moment. But help help us. How how should we... What's something we could do to make this a little more attainable and sustainable? Like, how long are your meetings? You've got five kids. If you can figure it out, we can figure it out. So do you have a tip for us?

Kelly: Well, I want to clarify something too. So we we recently tried to implement the rhythm of... Like, we currently have a thirty minute drive to church. So Kevin said, let's utilize that time well. You know? Let... While we're up front and the kids are chatting, hopefully, things are going well in the back of the van because 's not always true, but then we will chat through that time. And that would be our coaches meeting. So then when we... When Evan's referencing a coaches meeting, that means he and I on our own where we kind of get things ironed out and like the nitty gritty where it's not... Doesn't involve the kids. But then what he said Sunday, Monday, that's like a ice cream sundae that we have on on Monday evening. So the kids are always looking forward to that. So making your meeting something that your kids want to be at, I think, is is really crucial because then they're excited to come. You know, they have they have buy in already from the get go. So my kids... Our kids know that they're going to have ice cream at that meeting. Like, they're they're... They don't want to miss that meeting. And then also things that we can do better but that we believe is really important are making sure that your kids have a voice at that meeting, having it have some structure so that it doesn't like... It can it can get too long and we can talk too much. And then the kids are probably just hearing like, you know, they tune out after a while. They don't... They only have so much attention span. So depending on your kids' ages and what their abilities are to be part of the meeting is important to consider. So like a meeting should maybe be ten to fifteen minutes long. That would be our Monday meeting. And sometimes if it's going well and we want to expand it, then you can. But if you just... Like, if you capture those minutes, then that's really good. We've also tried to follow a calve calendar activities and vision so so that we'd have, like, points to touch on. We want to touch on the calendar with the kids. Here's what our week looks like coming up. Here are the activities that you specifically have, you know, child one, two, and three, then and then kind of bring it all back to are we matter? Why does it matter? Are we living out our vision? Are all of these things in alignment with our vision as a family, or are we, like, kind of going in the wrong direction with something and we need to Yeah. Eliminate it or reel it back?

Kevin: But, Rance, going back to your question, are you... Is this a you struggle with coaches meeting or you struggle with family meeting?

Rance: Well, both because... I feel like because we haven't been able to sustain the coaches meeting, we haven't really even tried to do the, the family meeting. So... But what I'm hearing is I could be a little more flexible and just look for moments to reclaim, like, ride to to church. You know? So I I love that. Are you going to add something else, Kevin?

Kevin: I just do better, rants. That's all I

Rance: gotta do. Yeah. Well, I think part of this... Actually, though, you you gave me more of a why. Like, so... Because at the end of the day, if we really want to do something, we'll do it. And I'm convinced now. Like, this... Thank you. So

Kelly: I think something else too that I would keep in mind, especially for listeners that are... That have really little kids or they're like, I want to start this, and I commend... Like, I think it's really good to start something when they're young but have... But, like, hold it really loosely and try not to get too tied up in, like, whether or not it was super successful right away because you're just building something that is is going to... It's just going to become something that you want it to down the road, and it's going to take time, and attention spans are a little. It's helped for our kids to have, like, when they're really little, when they're two, three, four, five, to have something to occupy their hands while they're listening. So if they are, like, doing something quietly, Legos might not be ideal because they can get... But you know what I mean? Like, a coloring book or some other quiet building activity because they are just... They are more engaged that way. They seem like they don't want to bounce off the couch as much when they have a little something to do while they're listening. Because if they just sit and listen, it can get they get antsy.

Rance: You guys have given us so many good things to think about to put into practice. I I just want to ask you, Kevin, one more question here. What is something you're working on? Like, when it comes to your family culture, what's still in process? What would you like to be more intentional with?

Kevin: Honestly, circling back to the very first question we talked about at the beginning is my time with Kelly. It's the... This, we talked about it in episode three with Hannes and Alma. This culture starts with us. It's not about my kids at all. It's about a greater mission. And if there's a priority, the priority is our relationship because the best thing you can give your kids is a strong foundation and a safe place to be, and the closer we are, the more we're laughing together, the the stronger our bond is, the better environment and culture they're going to just naturally pick up on. Whether we're having our meetings perfectly or not and things are humming along, if Kelly and I are good, it's just a better place to be.

Rance: Well, we're at that point in the episode where we do our outpost challenge, and, this one's going to be fun because even though, Kevin, you've been a guest, on this episode, Kelly is going to give us the Outpost Challenge. You don't know what it is. Right?

Kevin: I don't think so.

Rance: Okay. So this is a secret. So, Kelly, what what do you have for us today? Something we can, put into practice for our family culture.

Kelly: Alright. So then I will challenge you to think of a rhythm in your family that has either slips and something you started but kind of has fallen in the cracks or something you have yet to implement or one that you're doing but you need to add to. Like, you've been meaning to add to a rhythm. Maybe take the opportunity this week to just try that once and see how that goes.

Rance: That's right up what we've been talking about. Again, not to make this another free therapy moment, but that family meeting, that's going to be ours. So we're we're going to get that thing back on track just because of the peace that it brings into your weekly schedule and communication and just your your home. So that's my takeaway from today. And, I hope for those of you who are listening, maybe there's another rhythm in your family that, you could just take one step this week to be a little more intentional with, to get on the same page with your spouse and, to experience a little more peace in your family culture. So, well, I look forward to hearing, next week. Kevin and I will share how that, went for us, and we'd love to hear from you as well. If you'll email us at FamilyOutpost@AllFor1.org, it's in the show notes. Tell us what you restarted, what rhythm you're working on this week, and we'd love to hear what happened. If this conversation has stirred something in you about your family's culture, we also have a resource that would help you take the next step. It's called how to develop your family mission statement and values. You can download that link in the show notes. It's practical, short, and it gives you a process for actually naming what your family stands for, which is really the starting place of then being able to build rhythms around that and boundaries to protect that. And so I encourage you to check that out. Kelly, thank you so much for being here with us. This has been awesome. And by the way, thank you for supporting Kevin as he's been taking a lot of time away to help me with this podcast. Really are encouraged by you guys and your family, and I know our listeners have been today too.

Kelly: Yeah. Thank you for having me. It's fun.

Kevin: This is the part where you have to tell him to hit the like button and the subscribe and the bell icon and all those things.

Kelly: Oh, yeah. What he said.

Rance: Yeah. What he said. Awesome. Well, our next episode is going to be a good one. It's pillar four. We're on adventure. And this is going to be, talking about what it means for your family to take risks, to get out of your comfort zone, and to live on mission together. Pete and Adrian Reich will be sharing the story of how they literally gave up everything to follow the adventure God has for their family, and I don't want you to miss that one. So as Kelly said, follow us if you haven't so that you don't miss that next episode. Leave us a rating and review. It's one of the best ways to help other families find us, and it'll just take you about thirty seconds. If this episode has helped you, share it with another family. Forward the link, tell them why they'll want to listen, and that's how this thing grows. Thank you, and we'll see you next time on The Family Outpost.